I did this talk at a food science trade show and it was well received.
I introduced myself as a food scientist and serial entrepreneur who raised millions of dollars, and that I create awesome products.
Then I praised my MUJI jeans I got in Singapore which I can wear in the summer because they are a light material and I have a bad skin condition on my shin. Anyways, that set the tone for the entire talk: “I’m on stage because I’m an expert. Have fun with the advice I’m going to give you”
I think about conveying information a lot. I do a weekly podcast and I post on LinkedIn 3-5 times a week. Some things work and some things don’t. However, there’s a certain pattern that really matters when it comes to communication. Whether it’s a short post on LinkedIn or an hour-long conversation with a celebrity chef.
That is conveying any messaging with an awareness of Ethos, Logos, and Pathos. These are based on the modes of persuasion in Aristotle’s “Rhetoric”. In a much more blunt statement, these three modes of persuasion help with creating powerful arguments.
Can you believe I’m taking lessons from the 4th Century BC?
In every conversation, whether persuasive or argumentative, you will generally have the ability to convey three things: Ethos (your credibility), Logos (your logic) and your Pathos (the emotional delivery to a certain person or group)
I learned this in high school in honors English with a teacher who’s had a decent impact on me. It was the first thing I learned there, and it’s only been recently that I was able to think about this more often as I navigate the world of science communication and communicating what I do in fun and weird ways.
Every conversation you ever have, from a science talk to a romantic date, to a sales deal, is going to be based on these three modes of persuasion. We will be focusing on why each is important, how to use them, and how to tell if it works. This is especially true for scientists who have a really bad understanding of storytelling when conveying things like the end of the world. What you realize is that these three modes of persuasion are levers that matter in context (apparently, Aristotle thought of the fourth one being the context of when to utilize these)
Ethos - Titles, Credibility, Why You Matter
Would you trust a doctor to kick a football? Or Tom Brady to conduct heart surgery?
Maybe, the world is weird.
Anyways. Credibility is important. If you can’t convey credibility, it’s either because you are incompetent or overconfident about what you do.
To quickly evaluate Ethos, LinkedIn headlines are probably the easiest way to establish credibility fast, with validation of what you do is legitimate. I am very particular about LinkedIn headlines. I DON’T like it when people humanize their LinkedIn profile. This includes anything from Thought leader bullshit, to saying you drink a certain drink, to putting 5 different headlines and end up putting father, dog mom, or human being. In a world of quick decisions, you are having people waste valuable brain space when you list these things as they scrounge through your LinkedIn profile
My headline right now is Inventor - Food Scientist. I am conveying I have invented things in the food industry. Though I’m not even sure if it’s the right thing to convey. But I’m testing it. What I do know is that my street credibility has more weight in coveying my legitimacy so I am trying to get people to funnel through my LinkedIn profile as I say more provocative things.
A big lesson I learned is that titles work when they are clearly communicated. I put me as a cofounder and CTO at my last startup, and it was the worst thing I did because I had these absolutely terrible B2B SAAS platforms hound me to use their second-rate software. Or call me with a bad sales pitch. A bad title and not establishing credibility can really waste people’s time on both ends.
Also, you have to walk the walk and talk the talk. The more you can walk the walk in real life, the easier it is to just have your title be simple. Most people who have found their own business can just put CEO at XYZ and that’s legit.
Ethos is how you pitch yourself to establish instant credibility. It’s a blade of rhetoric that must be sharpened and tested often. It is the quickest way I’ve seen to get people to take you seriously. Some people are good at walking in a room and having the power of being so well known you automatically establish credibility. I can only do that in some rooms.
Logos - The Nutritional Substance
Logos
is a scientist’s main struggle which is convincing people not as smart as they are that they are right. We know the Earth is dying, we have tons of data and tons of smart people who are working day and night to fix this, but that’s not working.
As any scientist knows, generally, their messaging becomes ineffective as either other incentives or flat-out liars spew arguments that cause a scientist’s head to hemorrhage.
Logos is not hard for a scientist to understand so the most important thing in this section is to find ways to treat your argument as a science experiment. Messaging is just telling people the same thing in different ways.
We expect logic to convince people about the state of the world, or at least the state of your opinions. However, sometimes your argument can be like talking to a brick wall: it’s ineffective.
At the end of the day, Logos needs Ethos and Pathos to create this delicious sandwich of a persuasion. Logos always must be used after trust and credibility is established but the secret sauce is tying that logic to a powerful meaning that evokes emotion. We don’t feel climate change unless our house burns down from a California fire, or when our beef gets too expensive and we have to switch to beans. The facts and stats you use must be combined with the credibility you offer and the emotional delivery of your content.
Pathos - The Taste, Your Taste, and How You Convey
How a conversation makes you feel is important but often overlooked. Sometimes a message is effective in the morning, late at night, over a drink or it makes you laugh. Quite simply, it’s the art of storytelling
The feeling you convey with your words has to be studied often.
We’ve seen an overemphasis on Pathos in today’s world. Anything that catches your attention is generally viewed through a Pathos lens: quick emotional shock.
The emotional delivery is nuanced and difficult and takes a lot of courage. But it matters a lot.
What helps me get better at Pathos is reviewing what media really pulls me in. This can be a book, a blog post, an anime, a game, or a TED Talk.
Overall, good storytelling is centered on Pathos, the emotional delivery and people pay millions of dollars to get 10 people in a room to argue the emotional delivery of a plot. It’s worth something. The worst scientists in the world aren’t the dumbest, they are the ones who dismiss storytelling to get their logical argument across. The whole reason why we are here today in the modern world is because we have amazing storytellers who have convinced us to believe in a goal or a higher cause.
Study good stories often, and apply them in your own way.
The Chemical Reactions
Mastering these three modes of persuasion takes skill, practice, and a lot of self-awareness. In fact, one can argue that self-awareness of how you communicate is the only way you can convince someone of your idea. I treat each of these as reagents to a magical formula. The catalyst is always the hard part: who you’re convincing.
My Christian cousin, who has young kids, does not care about the AI project I did with Stanford, but my divorced Aunt, who lives in Hawaii was super interested in the project.
People are complicated, and everyone has grown up in different environments and beliefs. And you need to recognize that as good storytelling.
From what I notice, is that Ethos Logos and Pathos are levers. In whatever context you are chatting with someone and persuade them with an opinion or even a sale, you have to do a lighting quick read on who they are, where they come from, how much they earn, how attractive they are, how attractive you are, blah blah blah and then start the statement. This happens in a microsecond, but the faster you are at recognizing
Every podcast interview, BBQ conversation, client interaction, conference talk, I apply and I’m aware of Ethos, Pathos and Logos in my words and think of that context often. Sometimes it works, sometimes people think I’m a gigantic jerk. It’s doesn’t work all the time.
Example: Products
Every brand pulls levers when it comes to persuading you to buy their brand. Big brands like Tide, Pepsico and Mars Petcare can deliver Ethos very well due to their sheer size and time in market. Supplement brands or caffeine brands can deliver a benefit using a strong Logos argument because they sell a functional health benefit that makes sense (sometimes) and marketing brands such as Liquid Death or Tony’s Chocolony can create a powerful Pathos argument through humorous marketing collaborations or tugging the heartstrings about child-free labor chocolate.
Most brands struggle to find their actual ability to persuade. Or they try through sheer force of will. Every product has a beneficial strategy that involves a concoction of these three modes of persuasion. It takes a while to find your voice, but it’s worth finding it.
Example: People
I always use
Scott Galloway as an example of someone who has mastered the art of persuasion. He is a NYC marketing professor and a serial entrepreneur. His claim to fame (at least for me) is being on a Top 0.01% podcast associated with Kara Swisher. The previous statement is all about his established Ethos.
Scott uses statistics and logic to hammer his provocative points. In most discussions, he repeats the data quite often. His myriad books are logic bombs wrapped in anecdotes and credible data. That’s the Logos piece.
But the most powerful ability that Scott Galloway has is creating a powerful emotional statement that creates a fan for life. As someone who consumes his podcasts, writing, and everything else, I was pulled in by his emotional delivery, and stuck with him because he sounded smart. The Ethos, for me at least, builds up over time, but when things are colored, such as him being a marketing professor or a serial entrepreneur, then it definitely gives some credibility
Just be Aware
The most important advice is to be aware of Ethos, Logos, and Pathos when you either express yourself or when you listen to others. You will realize how often these three modes of persuasion are used and what it takes to mix combinations of the three. In every LinkedIn post, political speech, scientist dissertation, or startup pitch, you’ll realize just how powerful each of these three modes of persuasion is, and then you will develop your own secret sauce as well.